2023-07-22 - Interview Dr. David Sinclair - Reversing Aging: The Revolutionary Discoveries of David Sinclair
Transcript
Intro
0:05 | thank you very much for coming out on yet another chilly winter night here for |
0:10 | us um so Dr Sinclair I thought I might start |
0:18 | with something that one probably shouldn't do in polite company |
0:24 | okay what is that I'm going to pull the audience |
0:30 | how old do you think David Sinclair is |
0:36 | 29. 52. 45. |
0:42 | 48. [Laughter] |
Biological Age
0:50 | um now of course it I mean people's looks can be very misleading in |
0:56 | terms of age so maybe a better way to put it and I will ask I'll turn it back to you |
1:01 | uh Dr Sinclair um the audience is actually at a disadvantage because they have to make |
1:07 | this judgment just based on you know what they see but biologically age is a different thing so how much how old |
1:14 | would you say you are biologically well |
1:19 | I didn't say how old I am but I do use a number of different tests to see how I'm |
1:24 | doing and I do that as a role model because I think we cannot optimize what we don't measure so I've been measuring |
1:30 | myself for over the last 15 years to see what works in lifestyle and other things |
1:37 | that I do as a as a scientist and hopefully a role model for the future |
1:44 | so the tests indicate across the board that I'm about a decade |
1:50 | younger biologically than I am chronologically I certainly feel younger and my partner |
1:57 | would say I act younger uh often to my own detriment but it's very possible to |
2:03 | be younger than your actual birthday candles would suggest and there is a Harvard study that shows that if |
2:10 | you do just the right things that we might talk about later you can expect to live on average another 14 years and if |
2:17 | you did not do those things um so I try to do all the good things as a role model and hopefully help Inspire |
2:23 | others to do the same yeah so in the interests of transparency and what I would do in our regular show I would say |
Longevity
2:31 | you know renowned scientist Dr David Sinclair 53 is here joining us today so |
2:39 | there you go um I'm 47 by the way let's put it out there just to show everyone I I will |
2:46 | expose myself to the same amount of transparency but um in in whatever you |
2:51 | think your lifetime might be how much do you think average human |
2:57 | longevity might change in that time well it's changing every |
3:02 | day uh in fact every year you stay alive you get another three months of life because technology is advancing and it's |
3:09 | been going up across the world uh in advanced Nations uh continuously over |
3:15 | the last 200 years and it there's no sign that it's slowing down if anything it's going to speed up |
3:21 | um and so I think that that there is a chance that the first person to live 250 is already with us on |
3:27 | the planet and not only that even if technology doesn't go exponential which I think it's about |
3:34 | to even with today's March of science someone born today has |
3:41 | a 50 50 chance of getting to 100. as opposed to right now someone who's a hundred |
3:47 | has made it through you know about 98 of people of that age have died already so Queen Elizabeth she was really lucky in |
3:54 | the future it'll be normal to reach her age now when you say someone born today it's highly dependent on born where |
3:59 | right I mean I don't imagine a yemeni child born today as a likelihood of living to being a hundred a 50 50 chance |
4:07 | right so the good news though is that the world is increasingly getting enough nutrition |
4:13 | to be able to do well and and uh diseases overall infectious diseases are |
4:18 | coming down and in the future more and more people will have access to health care but you |
4:23 | you're right the problem right now is that there are Technologies and knowledge and Lifestyles that we know |
4:29 | keep you younger and healthier they're just unevenly distributed even within this country right so you said we might |
When did your interest in aging begin
4:37 | sort of be at um a sense in a sense a Tipping Point in terms of the acceleration of uh |
4:45 | longevity I'm going to just keep that as teas for folks right now because before we go forward I actually wanted to go |
4:51 | backward a little bit and ask you sort of to tell us the story briefly if you |
4:57 | could about when your curiosity your passion I mean what's become your life work in terms of |
5:04 | human aging when did that first begin uh well my interest in aging began when |
5:11 | everybody's interest starts when you realize that your parents are Mortals and will die one day that's a really sad |
5:19 | day we all have experienced that we all know about death and usually it happens around the age of |
5:24 | four or five that we realize that this is true uh for me I was raised in part by my |
5:29 | grandmother my mother worked so my grandmother um uh did take care of me and and she was |
5:36 | the sort of person that uh liked to shock uh people and she shocked me when |
5:43 | I was four years old she said uh well I asked for the question um they called her Vera not grandmother |
5:48 | Vera will you always be around and of course I'm thinking |
5:53 | say yes say yes because I can't live without you and she said no I'm gonna die we're all gonna die your cat's gonna |
6:00 | die first then your parents are gonna die then you'll die |
6:05 | uh and uh so that was traumatic I remember exactly where I was when it |
6:10 | happened what the carpet felt like it was prickly 1970s carpet um and for most of us we do experience |
6:17 | something that traumatic I witnessed it in my children I have three kids and the oldest uh cried for a week at night when |
6:24 | I told her the same thing and uh unfortunately we all go through that but most of us |
6:31 | can forget about it because it's traumatic we don't think about death every day it's quite depressing but I couldn't |
6:37 | forget about it uh it stayed with me because largely I felt like it was unfair why would there be |
6:44 | a conscious species that knew it was going to die that just |
6:49 | doesn't seem right to me and I knew that people were working on diseases cancer heart disease Alzheimer's this is what I |
6:56 | always wanted to do I wanted to grow up and be a doctor but why would why would we ignore aging aging is the worst that |
7:02 | can happen to us so that's how I became hooked can we put up a we've got a picture of |
Vera Sinclair
7:08 | of uh Vera of your grandmother um and I just want to uh read a quick |
7:16 | passage from your from your book lifespan if you could about her uh if I could read it for you um you write that |
7:24 | Vera sheltered Jews in World War II lived in primitive New Guinea was removed from Bondi Beach for wearing a |
7:30 | bikini the end of her but at the end of her life was hard to watch and she said this is just the way it goes but the |
7:37 | person truly that she truly was had been dead for many years at that point |
7:43 | can you tell us a little bit more about that I'll try to do it without getting upset |
7:50 | uh I'm not the only one that watches their loved ones tragically go on in a on a |
7:56 | decline typically the last 10 years of life are not something we'd wish on our enemies let alone our loved ones and I saw that |
8:02 | with Vera that she was vivacious you can see that in these pictures that are shown behind us she was so full of life |
8:10 | uh I had such a great time mentally you know I was I was six to ten years old during the |
8:17 | Glory Days with her and she was also mentally six to ten she was a child herself |
8:23 | it turns out my father her son was taken away from her because she had my father when she was 15 years old so I was |
8:29 | really her first born that she could raise and we had had a great time she would drive down the road in the car |
8:35 | dancing to music you know no seat belts in those days and so I learned to to |
8:41 | love life the way she did but then to see the last 10 years of her life she actually she fell on a little uh Ripple |
8:47 | in her carpet in her apartment broke her hip and uh was never the same and this |
8:52 | is often what happens to older people is something really small like oh you trip or you don't hang onto the handrail that |
8:58 | does them in and it was really tragic to watch someone who was so full of life who I admired I ended up going on that |
9:05 | downhill and this is everybody's experience typically that someone knows someone they love who goes through that |
9:11 | suffering that pain and there's nothing yet we can do about it |
Science of Aging
9:17 | well uh I want to actually there's so much that you're saying right now Dr |
9:22 | Sinclair that I want to pursue but um I'm gonna hold it to the to the end here |
9:27 | because I want to give the science uh it's it's adequate do here |
9:33 | we have an illustration uh another one I should say from uh Catherine uh Delphia |
9:39 | am I saying her name correctly yes Delphia um that addresses what we do know right |
9:45 | now about the science of Aging so can you can you walk us through this a little bit give us the the brief |
9:51 | synopsis of what it is we know about why the human body ages |
9:57 | yeah so the field of Aging has gone through many Transformations uh when I |
10:02 | started I came to MIT in Boston in 1995 and the Dogma was take some antioxidants |
10:08 | and you'll be good uh that's no longer the case we've moved on and in the the mid 1990s to late 1990s at MIT we and |
10:16 | others around the world discovered genes that control aging you can tweak one gene in an animal a worm or a mouse or a |
10:23 | fly and now we know in humans one change can make a big difference and so that was a rebel revolution revolution as |
10:30 | well and in the early 2000s when I started my lab at Harvard we and others again discovered that the environment |
10:36 | how the organisms live or how we live turns on those genes that controls aging and that was really important but the |
10:43 | problem was we're all fighting as scientists my genes more important than your Gene David you work on the sirtuins |
10:48 | they suck you should work on mtor and then it no really it's Amp kinase it's important and you know scientists always |
10:55 | want to rush to not always but often want to be the the center of attention but what was really important in early |
11:01 | 2000s was a couple of papers that were written to unify the field and they said |
11:07 | all right everybody's everybody's right there are eight causes |
11:12 | of Aging and these genes work on many of these and so let's calm down let's come |
11:18 | together and so there was a chart that was drawn it was a pie chart where everybody's favorite Theory of Aging was |
11:24 | put in there equally and it was happy times but of course they're not going to be equal so some of the things that are |
11:30 | on that pie chart are loss of stem cells loss of nutrient sensing so high blood sugar for example senescence so zombie |
11:38 | cells that accumulate DNA damage is a traditional one and in there is epigenetics which we'll |
11:45 | definitely get into which is what I work on but these what are called Hallmarks of Aging was a unified |
11:51 | theory of why we age but to me it wasn't satisfying because I knew we're not |
11:57 | aging because of a pie chart we're aging because there's probably something that's happening to cause all of those |
12:02 | things to happen and I've been looking for that ever since okay so then tell me more about the the epigenetics portion |
Epigenetics
12:09 | um of this your area of focus yeah it's it's been an evolution but it |
12:14 | really started in 1995 when I got to MIT uh the lab of Leonard guarante which is |
12:20 | still over here uh in Boston discovered that there are genes that |
12:26 | control aging and yeast and there was one called Sir II that gave rise to a whole field now |
12:32 | and I arrived just as they discovered a yeast mutant that lived longer and they didn't understand why but it turns out |
12:38 | this surging sir number two the it's an acronym for silent |
12:45 | information regulator number two and what's important about that name is the word information |
12:51 | and really what SO2 does is it controls whether a gene is silent switched off or |
12:58 | in its absence turned on and in yeast as the yeast get older |
13:04 | the inability to control the pattern of which genes are on and off is a Hallmark |
13:10 | of yeast aging leads to their them getting old and from that Discovery led |
13:15 | to what I've called the information Theory of Aging and that's the idea that it's not the loss of proteins or or |
13:23 | defects in the cell membrane these are all known to happen what's really going |
13:28 | on is that cells lose their ability to control which genes should be switched |
13:34 | on and off now when we're when we're embryos and we're young foreign |
13:42 | cells know how to be cells skin cells have the same DNA as a brain cell and a |
13:49 | liver cell and what makes them different is which genes are switched on and off and we have about 20 000 of those and |
13:56 | these surgeons that we found in yeast control that pattern and the idea of the |
14:02 | information Theory of Aging is that that pattern gets disrupted by insults to the cell that such as broken chromosomes |
14:09 | which we have now shown drives this process and one way to think of it the analogy |
14:15 | is like a compact disc and for the young people listening and watching these were really awesome little plastic discs you |
14:22 | could put 10 songs on they were really exciting but the analogy uh with aging is that the music is still on the CD |
14:30 | but the scratches are making it hard to read the music so in biology what this |
14:35 | means is that the DNA with the genes is still intact but the body can't read it and that's called uh the epigenome the |
14:43 | readers of the DNA are the epigenome versus The genome which is the DNA and what that actually means is now now |
14:49 | when I look at an older person they might be frail gray hair they can't see |
14:55 | very well I'm pretty sure that the instructions to be young are still in that person |
15:02 | they the cells in that person just don't know how to read the DNA correctly which has led us to the idea that we should be |
15:09 | able to reset the body in the same way we'd reinstall software on an old computer and get the body to work like |
15:15 | it was young again then that what would be the mechanisms |
Reversing Aging
15:21 | theoretically to do that that reset or that that sort of software update right |
15:28 | or polish off the scratches yeah if you're still in the 1980s well we didn't know if it was true that |
15:35 | the information the epigenetic information not the genetic was still intact there was no precedent for for |
15:42 | that existence um we'd learn in the the early 2000s |
15:47 | uh well mid mid 2000s that you could reset the age of a cell back to zero uh shinyo yamanako won the Nobel |
15:55 | Prize for that and uh 2016. but what wasn't clear to anybody was |
16:01 | whether you could partially reset a cell from 70 years old back to 25 without |
16:06 | going all the way to zero which you don't want to do you do not want to be age zero you will be the world's biggest tumor |
16:13 | so we had this idea that maybe the cell has a memory of being young there's some |
16:18 | information in there that we don't know about and if we turn on embryonic genes it's just some of them and we in in our |
16:25 | paper that we published in 2020 we used three genes uh short the acronym is O S |
16:31 | and K we put osk into cells and we found that they did go back not to zero but |
16:36 | they stopped at about 75 percent age reversal and those cells could now have |
16:42 | the same um function as they did when they were young and they stayed young it wasn't |
16:47 | just oh we had to keep these genes on it was a it was a reset and the cells became young and |
16:54 | functioned young and then we use that technology we tested it on the eye of a mouse we let mice get old or we gave |
17:00 | them glaucoma which isn't a very common age-related disease and we put in these three genes for a |
17:05 | couple of months these three embryonic genes that are normally not on in mammals and guess what happened |
17:12 | they went back in age from an old mouse which is two years back to a much younger age and their |
17:19 | blindness was cured and the cells at the back of the either nerve cells became young for the first |
17:25 | time and it was a permanent reset and now we actually know that you can keep |
17:30 | resetting so I see a future where we can reset parts of the body maybe the whole |
17:35 | body we take a medicine we go back 10 years and the doctor says well come back in another 10 years and we'll do it |
17:41 | again of the the mouse experiment that you were talking about just now |
Mouse Experiment
17:49 | uh and so is is this is this is this is demonstrating or what |
17:55 | you were discussing about the reset in the in the audience yeah exactly this is actually a different experiment that was |
18:02 | the first one that we did but it's very similar in this case we had a damaged optic nerve in the mouse and only very |
18:08 | young mice can repair their Vision if you damage the optic nerve similar to if you if you break your spine your uh your |
18:15 | spinal cord you're not going to walk again yet and we we reverse the age of the eye of these mice and the nerves grew back to |
18:22 | the brain all the way back and that's never happened before and so that was the first indication that we could truly |
18:28 | restore the ability to heal that's only present in very young individuals |
18:34 | and we measured the age of those cells and they were young we can now we have a clock and we can measure everybody's age |
18:41 | now pretty easily for just a few dollars and those mice that became younger the |
18:46 | other thing that's shown in this diagram that's interesting is that there are enzymes that control that clock that we |
18:53 | measure there are chemicals on the DNA that we can read that tell us how old the cell is biologically |
18:58 | and those enzymes when we got rid of them they're called teds then the mice |
19:03 | did not get their Vision back so we needed that system to reset the clock to |
19:09 | be able to get Vision back so it just the analogy how important is this well it's as if we had a clock on the wall |
19:16 | and normally if you turn the hands back of a clock nothing happens |
19:22 | time doesn't change but in this experiment time changed when we reversed the clock which was really quite a |
19:28 | discovery the clock uh the Horvath clock is that |
Horvath Clock
19:33 | right yeah so Steve forabeth gets to name it he was one of the first scientists and so Steve discovered that |
19:40 | these chemicals on the genome change some of them change predictably over time and he used machine learning to |
19:47 | find out which of those sites so there are millions of these what are called DNA methylations or these are chemicals |
19:52 | that accumulate on DNA and a few hundred of those are very predictive of your biological age |
20:00 | and also can predict when you're going to die so I could take your DNA a cheek swab and tell you |
20:06 | roughly if you don't change your life when you're gonna die and sometimes even what you're going to die of so this |
20:12 | clock has revolutionized aging research because before all we could do is look at somebody or look at a mouse and say |
20:18 | hey it looks kind of young looks kind of old but now we can very accurately tell you how old it is |
20:23 | so so bear with me for a moment |
Biological Failures
20:30 | a couple summers ago I went to Bryce Canyon National Park and they have a they have a Grove of |
20:36 | Bristlecone Pine there right a species that's also known as the |
20:42 | Methuselah tree because they live for thousands of years and then the oldest one in this |
20:47 | particular little Grove was 1900 years old and but it was it was like a baby essentially right and |
20:54 | and I was thinking in nature species like that organisms like that |
21:01 | are exceedingly rare as far as I can tell if if I'm wrong please correct me there's um |
21:08 | like one species of shark whose name I forget Greenland the Greenland shark that can live for like half a millennia |
21:14 | something like that right yeah or more yeah yeah but there aren't I mean again |
21:21 | correct me if I'm wrong but there aren't that many so I'm wondering if if Aging |
21:26 | in and of itself if the theory is that there's something fundamentally uh if aging is a sign of a of a biological |
21:34 | failure um one would presume that with Evolution biological failures would be evolved out |
21:41 | so why don't we have more species that live for extraordinarily long periods of |
21:46 | time oh there's a very simple answer we only live as long as we need to to ensure the species survival |
21:53 | Evolution doesn't care about us as individuals unfortunately and if species are preyed upon like a |
21:59 | mouse or or an insect it will breed rapidly and die young because they put |
22:04 | all their energy into breathing species that are at the top of the food chain can afford to grow slowly |
22:10 | reproduce slowly and live long and and put effort into building a robust body and you know we've been at the top of |
22:16 | the food chain not for not that long so we're still evolving longer life spans give us another six million years we'll |
22:23 | definitely live longer but we don't have time for that we need to re-engineer ourselves somehow but there are species |
22:30 | like you say that they are relatively rare but they're they're quite a lot hundreds of species that live longer |
22:35 | than us a lot of reptiles birds even uh definitely whales uh who by the way |
22:41 | whales are very similar to us very very genetically similar so you know it's not just a tree we don't have to become |
22:46 | trees to live a long time we just need to find what are the few Gene changes in in Wales that give them the long life |
22:52 | and a whale is full of cells they don't get cancer for sometimes hundreds of years there are tricks to this |
22:59 | um so I when often I'm asked well maybe we humans are at our limit 122 is the |
23:05 | longest uh at least ostensibly the longest lived human that's recorded |
23:11 | um they say well that's it that's all we can do and my answer to that is well |
23:17 | we're just getting started there are lots of species that can live 200 300 years that are not that different from |
23:22 | us some live thousands so there is no no law of biology that says we must age |
23:28 | there isn't anyone who says we have to grow old doesn't know what they're talking about there are ways of preserving the body we |
23:35 | see it in the natural world and we just need to learn how that how do they do it and one of the interesting things is if |
23:40 | you look at species that live a long time like whales and these sharks and Bristlecone Pines they're epigenome the |
23:47 | structures that control the DNA have a lot more stable epigenome there |
23:53 | are information on how to control the genes switches are very stable which |
23:58 | fits with the information Theory of Aging so if we can find ways to control our cells aging process and and be able |
24:05 | to maintain that youthful pattern of which genes are on and off like a whale and a tree we should be able to live |
24:12 | hundreds of years if not thousands but so but you said that that species tend |
Human Lifespan
24:17 | to live on average as long as is needed to reproduce |
24:23 | but what your positing in the future is living is |
24:28 | human beings living much much much much longer than needed to reproduce so you actually are |
24:35 | really pushing against The evolutionary requirement for the lifespan of of the |
24:41 | human organism fantastic why not everything else about human no I just want to be I want I want |
24:48 | to be clear on that because this isn't some this isn't just like we want to improve people it's not just that not |
24:54 | it's it's something else you really are pushing against what you're saying is the evolutionary rule for every other |
25:00 | species ever right but what else you know we've been |
25:06 | doing that for thousands of years as a species what about this room is natural the air isn't natural the temperature is |
25:13 | natural clothes are not natural speaking into a microphone is definitely not natural we are an unnatural species |
25:19 | is what we do so controlling aging is what we do I would argue that controlling aging |
25:25 | is more natural than not controlling it it surprises me that we as a species have ignored it for so long if an alien |
25:31 | came down and looked at us they'd say okay we're pretty impressed with equals mc squared and pi to a billion decimal |
25:38 | places but you're missing the most important problem that you face on the planet and that is you'll get sick you |
25:45 | know at 70 years old you're getting sick that's craziness we solved aging Millennia ago what are you doing |
25:52 | so but so because I just hear a lot of terms that maybe in my mind they're becoming conflated and you can help me |
25:58 | um parse them a little because you know from the moment one could say from the moment the sperm |
26:05 | meets the egg the aging process is essential begun it does begin a conception we can measure that now Okay |
26:10 | so by that definition it's not aging per se that you are trying to do something |
26:17 | about because obviously we need to be born we need to grow we need to mature |
26:23 | it's old age and the ravages of old age that you're concerned about that you're concerned with |
26:29 | I'm concerned about aging even in teenagers we are aging at every stage of our life every day how we live matters |
26:35 | and accumulates so if you are in college and you don't take care of your body that will show up decades later as |
26:42 | sickness and old age there is no escaping that it's not that you can be really bad and then at age 80 start |
26:48 | living well it's cumulative and that clock is ticking every day and so with that knowledge a lot of |
26:55 | young people in their 20s are paying attention to this kind of research knowing that they need to start early okay so I guess I'm just confused though |
Aging in Teenagers
27:02 | because that's is that simply trying to live a more healthful life or is it you |
27:08 | said that you're concerned about aging in teenagers are aging we're all aging even babies |
27:14 | are aging and the way we raise our children even in the mother's womb is ticking that that hovath clock forward |
27:21 | which will cause issues later in life uh and so the |
27:28 | teenagers even though they're still developing and getting older um although they look like they're still |
27:34 | functioning very well there are changes to that clock that will affect them later in life now I'm not saying that |
27:40 | the kind of things that we do as as midlife adults should be done by teenagers of course absolutely not but I |
27:47 | do think that things like obesity and the lack of exercise for just to name two things that the teenagers suffer |
27:54 | from due to modern society uh will cause problems in their health many decades |
27:59 | later hmm um sorry I'm just I'm gonna discussion on this a little because I just I |
28:06 | I I it's not that I'm confused I just I think there's a gap in my understanding because |
Diseases of Aging
28:12 | you know there is there's a lot there's been a conception for a long time uh that |
28:19 | the the disease you said this earlier like the the diseases of cancer heart |
28:24 | disease Etc these are obviously things that we are we don't want to get right and we are spending trillions of dollars |
28:32 | to to to cure to Stave off to treat |
28:37 | um I don't know sometimes I look at |
28:42 | especially things like cancer as in some people the sort of inevitable endpoint |
28:49 | of life right because if it has to do with you know cellular reproduction right that that you have to die of |
28:56 | something and a lot of people are going to die of cancer so uh I guess what I'm saying is people |
29:03 | please forgive me about this because it's going to sound cruel but my you know my mother has uh she's got |
29:08 | peritoneal cancer um and in total transparency my father died in October right so you have to die |
29:17 | of something and I guess what I'm curious about is are you when you push your vision to its farthest extreme are |
29:22 | you saying that you feel like people should not die ever |
29:28 | or that all these diseases that we're trying to fight should be completely eradicated for what so that we live forever no |
29:35 | absolutely not I'm not saying we should live forever I am saying that we have a chance to |
29:40 | postpone illness and suffering by tackling what's causing illness and suffering which is Aging for too long |
29:48 | we've been focused on the end products of Aging cancer heart disease Alzheimer's these are 80 to 90 percent |
29:54 | caused by the aging process so we're really sticking Band-Aids at the end of |
29:59 | life on these problems when we're missing the main point that's driving these even cancer young people tend not |
30:06 | to get cancer because their bodies are killing cancer cells in their body every day so if you could take an 80 year old and |
30:12 | make it 20 make the person 20 then they probably wouldn't get cancer either you'd have a very strong immune system |
30:18 | same for heart disease same for Alzheimer's we're now reversing Aging in mice in the brain and their dementia |
30:25 | goes away so I I believe that the best way to prevent and also to treat diseases of |
30:30 | aging and even damage like those damaged eyeballs in the mice is to keep cells |
30:36 | young so that they know how to function optimally and take care of us and when we do that I think that those diseases that cause suffering lead in life |
30:43 | in billions of people yeah that will go away because the body will be young and can fight those diseases |
30:50 | so what would people die of well they'll probably still die from the same diseases but much later and quicker |
30:55 | the longer somebody lives the quicker they die with less suffering and the less burden on the economy that is a |
31:01 | fact and that's what I'm hoping for for everybody yeah but what I'm curious is though is |
Health Care
31:07 | the longer they live the the quicker they die |
31:12 | um I mean the flip side of that is especially here in the U.S health care System but 50 of our health care dollars |
31:17 | goes to taking care of people in the last year of their lives so whether they die quickly or not we're still spending |
31:24 | a vast sum of money in that last slice right I mean that that is true and uh but what |
31:31 | also you we should appreciate is it's somebody who gets sick at age 50 or 60 and then spends 10 20 years being taken |
31:38 | care of and there are a lot of people like that as well and I don't think that that's necessary actually that |
31:44 | with technology that's available now not everybody but will be the scans and the |
31:49 | DNA tests cancer is largely preventable at least a lot of it can be detected decades before it |
31:55 | actually shows up and we get sick same with heart disease very good medicines not so much the brain but we're working on that there is a future where |
32:03 | even without the age reversal technology we will be able to prevent the major Killers for a long while a lot a long |
32:10 | time beyond what we currently do the way medicines practice now I think is very medieval we see a doctor maybe once a |
32:17 | year we go in they say how you feeling feeling okay to get some sleep you're getting exercise |
32:22 | that's how it's been done for hundreds of years what we now need to do is to be able to monitor the body not once a year |
32:28 | but every second and there are ways to do that I wear monitors sometimes that measure my body every thousandth of a |
32:34 | second and predict can predict if I'm going to have a heart attack in the future if I have cancer and these things |
32:39 | are coming and those Technologies combined with the Aging research that we and others are doing will guarantee for |
32:46 | most people an extra decade or two can you talk more about that because um there is a whole culture right of |
Bio Monitoring
32:53 | people who are like just constantly bio-monitoring uh themselves and uh and |
32:59 | in fact it's it's growing rapid rapidly we are all carrying devices in our |
33:04 | pockets or handbags right now that can do a lot of this um you don't even have to like |
33:10 | physically attach it to your body but um it wasn't that long you've been talking about this for quite some time it wasn't |
33:16 | that long ago where people kind of looked at you at a scans about it oh that's true yeah in my book I talk about |
33:22 | having a glucose monitor which in those days recently just pre-covered it was |
33:28 | weird to have a monetary on yourself unless you had type 2 diabetes or type 1. now there's a whole Trend where |
33:35 | people want to know what's going on in their bodies and the reason for wanting to do that is I make the case that we we |
33:42 | know more about how our cars are functioning that we know about our bodies we have a dashboard there's computers that monitor things all the |
33:48 | time but we fly blind with our bodies why is that we should be no we should know how |
33:54 | things are going not just to alert us if we're going to get sick or if there's something we need to see a doctor for but to know if |
34:01 | changes in our lifestyle are working everybody's different I'm often asked what should I do and there are some |
34:07 | general rules but we're all very different we're different genders different DNA different epigenomes we |
34:14 | also have different microbiomes and we also are tolerant of different Lifestyles I don't like exercise some |
34:19 | people love it so we're all different and if you don't monitor yourself in some way you have no idea if what you're |
34:25 | doing is working you know um it my brother lives in Palo Alto and |
Biohacking
34:31 | he in fact was talking to me about many friends he has that wears like the constant glucose monitoring and there's |
34:37 | a whole sort of like like biohacking uh world out there |
34:44 | um the the maybe I'm just influenced a little bit |
34:50 | by the conversations I've had with my brother but the whole idea that like microsecond to microsecond we can |
34:55 | optimize that's the language of Silicon Valley right optimizing the machine of |
35:01 | the body in order to produce the most perfect result being whatever you want it to be |
35:06 | um for those of us who don't live in that world where we're constant constantly thinking about it can that also produce |
35:13 | some anxiety a little right because like you know I would say that part of what I think is |
35:19 | one of the beauties of of um of the human body is that like we're this wonderful homeostatic machines right where like we |
35:28 | we go through highs and lows of whatever system you want but overall we kind of attain some kind of balance I mean how |
35:34 | healthy is it to monitor yourself every second of microsecond of the day and |
35:40 | night yeah well I'm not looking at the data all the time okay but but the computer that gets the data is and |
35:46 | that's what we want we want AI systems or at least a a nurse or some other practitioner who can monitor hundreds if |
35:53 | not thousands of people's um readouts and if and I've seen this these devices exist you stick them on |
36:00 | there are screens and there are hundreds of people and if there's an alert that somebody has an arrhythmia or is |
36:06 | developing uh an infection these things pick these things up they can listen to you they |
36:12 | can tell if you're getting depressed they can tell if you're you have early Parkinson's the screen lights up in |
36:17 | Orange alert and shows which which tissue might be the kidneys alert a lot |
36:22 | alert and so I'm not monitoring it but I feel comfortable that somebody's paying attention and if I get cancer or can |
36:29 | have a heart attack I'd Rather somebody know about it that can help me adjust but it can become it can be a habit |
36:37 | producing I think um it can be a bit of a hobby to monitor yourself I'm guilty |
36:42 | of that but there's something in between for the average person where Flying Blind medieval style is is really |
36:49 | not going to ensure a healthy long life and then there's there's me who's science seeing the heck out of myself |
36:54 | there's something in between where you can forget about it for months and it it's in the background of your life but |
37:01 | why do that it's not just about the future of life I'm not doing this actually to live longer anyone who's |
37:07 | seen me drive my car knows that to be true I'm really just very curious about where can we be as a species in the |
37:13 | future and try to get that future to be earlier so billions of people can live better and the living better is very |
37:19 | important if we optimize our bodies for glucose levels just that we will have a |
37:24 | better day I learned by monitoring my glucose that I was eating too often I was getting |
37:30 | highs and lows and these lows are when you get hangry and you you have this brain fog and then you feel like you |
37:36 | need a snack and then you eat a snack and you spike your sugar up again and this roller coaster through the day is |
37:41 | really not pleasant most people live like that they're hungry they eat they're hungry they eat I now have been |
37:47 | able to figure out how my body responds and I don't feel hungry for most of the day and then I have a really big dinner and I can concentrate much better than |
37:54 | thinking about food all the time I want you to know that this is exactly the opposite of what Dan buettner told us |
Diet
37:59 | last week yeah I'm happy to debate dad because he talked about front loading |
38:05 | your calorie consumption in the in the day right having uh bigger meals in the morning and in the midday and not eating |
38:11 | as much in the evening and also I think um many doctors would say that rather |
38:16 | than having a big meal at the end of the day it actually is better to have |
38:21 | smaller meals but healthful meals right like maybe what |
38:27 | I'm not gonna hold myself up as a paragon of healthy eating I'm going to be honest because sometimes when I I |
38:32 | have a snack I know my glucose levels are shooting up because I'm having a unhealthy snack but but what you're what |
38:39 | you're saying though is actually seems a little contrary to what a lot of |
38:45 | the the medical advice that that people are getting yeah I agree I think the the |
38:51 | idea that we should be nibbling on food the whole day is wrong for Longevity if your goal is |
38:59 | is to never be hungry uh then that's fine but my goal and I hope many viewers that you can spend your 80s and 90s |
39:06 | playing tennis or hiking whatever you want to do if that's your goal eating three full meals a day with snacks is |
39:12 | not going to get you there most likely the science says and I'm always based on science not on what I want I would love |
39:19 | to eat three meals a day but the science says that in animals and increasingly in human studies |
39:25 | having a a window of eating is better it |
39:30 | doesn't it doesn't have to be at night I just like to eat at night no I don't feel hungry in the morning but some people like morning so even late night |
39:36 | but it's that that gap of about 18 hours where the body isn't in a Fed state that |
39:41 | go the body goes into this fasted state that turns on these longevity genes to protect us now that doesn't mean you |
39:47 | have to be Draconian about it you're allowed to have a little bit of food I nibble on chocolate and nuts and I'm not always |
39:55 | without food uh but try to put your meals into a smaller amount of time per |
40:01 | day and that I think is the best thing we know about scientifically no the the clarification is important so you're |
40:07 | talking about a window and also a caloric restriction oh right well not so much actually you know it's when you eat |
40:13 | not so much how much not how much yeah it was a really good experiment by Rafael De Cabo NIH okay he gave mice |
40:20 | three different diets lots of fat and carbs and protein and he was thinking he'd figure out what is the best |
40:26 | combination of all those things and it turns out it didn't matter what the mouse ate it was when they ate and if he |
40:32 | crammed the period where he gave them the food into an hour per day they lived 30 longer no matter what they were |
40:38 | eating and to me that was that convinced me that we should focus more on on when we eat yeah but what you eat is also |
40:45 | very important of course and that combination I think is the is the key you wanted to debate Dan buettner okay |
40:51 | that's interesting we should have done that um for the next time |
40:56 | for the record we tried Steven our producer tried to do try to make that happen I'm sorry you couldn't make it |
41:02 | happen I will say that what what Dan says about the types of food to eat uh and the blues the plant-based is |
41:07 | completely congruent with what my research says okay what would you debate him on though or |
41:14 | or what what are the what what does he say that you find debatable well we we have we have a lot of we have |
41:21 | a lot more in common than we have about I think we could debate whether it's uh it's more fun to eat in the morning or night |
41:29 | I think you'd find a pretty boring argument because we're both in sync on uh being plant-based uh eating plants |
41:37 | that are full of what are called polyphenols and plant molecules that that turn on the body's defenses so yeah |
41:44 | I don't think it's uh it's worth us debating though um no okay I think I |
Cold therapy
41:51 | think it's definitely worth it but um a couple other things that you have talked about for for many years which are |
41:57 | becoming more commonplace so uh we talked about bio monitoring essentially |
42:04 | the sort of keep restricting the or finding that window of time to eat |
42:10 | I want to call it fasting is that just different than the the window of time that you were just talking about it's |
42:17 | also known as fasting okay well um now but I'm finding in this conversation |
42:22 | getting clear definitions of uh of the ideas that we're talking about is quite |
42:27 | important cold therapy meaning while you can expose your skin to brief |
42:36 | bouts of very cold temperature four degrees Celsius cold water bath with ice in it people typically do for three |
42:43 | minutes or so what about it |
42:50 | is there evidence that it has a positive effect on lifespan |
42:56 | not in humans in animals if you chill them like mice they will live longer |
43:02 | um somebody did a study and found out the hard way that if you put them individually they don't live as long as |
43:08 | if no they live longer as individuals than with someone that keeps them warm |
43:14 | so but being humans not well well known but what is known about humans is that we have surprisingly we have what's |
43:20 | called Brown fat which is was thought to only exist in newborns so newborns don't |
43:25 | shiver they have brown fat and that generates the Heat and it was thought there was just babies that have that but |
43:31 | we are brown fat it's found largely on our backs and when we're cold when we |
43:36 | expose our skin to cold it revs up that fat and can actually turn white fat into beige fat which is brownish and that's |
43:43 | very healthy fat that's the kind of fat that you want it's highly metabolic and |
43:48 | it seems to secrete these factors that circulate through our bodies that improves metabolism |
43:53 | so how many of the things um or the the lifestyle changes that |
43:59 | your your research seems to indicate might uh increase longevity how many of these |
44:05 | things do you practice in your life most of them um such as |
44:11 | uh well so I I try to eat really well I was and still inspired by my partner |
44:18 | who's a a chef and a nutritionist uh Serena poon and so about |
44:24 | 12 months ago maybe 15 uh she came into my kitchen and threw out most of the |
44:30 | food and we started from scratch and I used to be on a Mediterranean diet with a focus on red wine and cheese I thought |
44:36 | that would be very healthy turns out Serena says that's not true uh and it actually turns out to be to be true |
44:43 | because after I changed my diet to be plant focused and eating a lot of fresh food and limiting the dairy and cutting |
44:51 | out alcohol my blood biomarkers that indicate my health and age have improved dramatically hmm |
44:58 | you know so Dr Sinclair I have to say uh in in Reading looking at your book and |
45:05 | reading what I could about your research that's been published Etc there are many people who would who say that the the |
45:12 | science that you're doing at the bench is phenomenal right it's really pushing the |
45:19 | bounds of what we know and understand about the human body |
45:24 | um some of those folks who I will note wouldn't give their names have also been |
45:29 | quoted in articles about you as they wish you |
45:35 | would just stick to the science and not talk about aging or longevity in the way that you |
45:42 | do saying that we could live past 150 so even tonight you said even it could be |
45:48 | even be longer than that saying that we can basically stop stop aging what's |
45:54 | your response to that I think Everyone's entitled to their own |
46:00 | opinion and and in fact speak for themselves and I stick to the facts though I think I |
46:05 | should be able to uh project in my opinion what the future looks like and I also I like to |
46:12 | communicate I think that our research mostly is paid by taxpayers and |
46:17 | taxpayers have a right to know what we're doing and also have someone who is in the field to interpret what the field |
46:24 | is doing because most people don't have access to the world's scientific literature each paper costs them 40 |
46:30 | bucks that's crazy uh and then even if they read the paper it's very hard to understand because we like scientists |
46:36 | like to use jargon intentionally to obscure themes and uh and it's not right and so I |
46:42 | I think that anyone who criticizes me is welcome to that opinion but I disagree I |
46:49 | think more scientists should be out there talking about their research and trying to explain it in a way that is |
46:54 | not only factual and understandable but also inspirational to get the next generation of scientists to get excited |
Resveratrol controversy
47:00 | too yeah no I look I I completely agree with you on the importance of inspirational |
47:06 | and accurate scientific communication to the public without a doubt |
47:11 | um but some of the concerns that I've uh I understand that that people have about |
47:17 | your interactions um with the public I'll just give you an example |
47:22 | um you know this one very well that in what was it in 2006 right I I I'm gonna |
47:30 | give the background to folks and then I just would love to hear you tell us sort of where we are with this |
47:35 | um controversy I guess that in 2006 you had this groundbreaking research on uh |
47:40 | Resveratrol um that I believe is a molecule found in red wine |
47:46 | and did a lot of interviews because of course it was fascinating science and it captured the interests of of the general |
47:52 | public including um an interview on 60 Minutes where you said uh that we could expect a a pill in |
48:00 | five years time that would essentially um you know be a a Resveratrol pill and |
48:06 | you also talked to another reporter who said that uh Resveratrol was as close to |
48:11 | miraculous molecule as you could find but a few years later other scientists and two Pharma companies uh couldn't rep |
48:19 | replicate your results but then you you there was another paper that was |
48:24 | published in 2013 that verified your results so I'm just wondering where is |
48:30 | the has that been resolved yet about whether or not Resveratrol was the |
48:35 | miracle molecule that you said it would be uh yeah it it turns out science is |
48:41 | difficult making drugs is difficult and so while I was saying if all goes well we'll have a drug in five years |
48:46 | I was overly optimistic I didn't realize how difficult it is to make a drug |
48:52 | um I did though say there's no guarantee and and it came up against number of headwinds uh one of which was this |
48:59 | debate that came up in the Pharma world I was trapped between two pharmaceutical companies at the time it was GSK who had |
49:05 | purchased my in our Labs intellectual property um and then Pfizer who is challenging |
49:11 | that and you know it's not that much fun being sandwiched between two of the largest companies in the world debating |
49:16 | your work uh but what what ended up happening was uh the Pfizer scientists |
49:22 | who said that the theory and the mechanism was wrong uh actually it turns out it was a good |
49:28 | thing because we were forced to go back to the lab and hunker down and and test |
49:34 | where we write or were we not and it was about how the molecule actually works on the enzyme to the atomic level so we're |
49:40 | talking about real details here um and we did the work and to it was three years later we published a paper |
49:46 | in science 2013 uh showing evidence that we were right |
49:52 | uh and we've since been validated so the controversy over that setback has been |
49:58 | okay so you know we've shown that the original Discovery was true |
50:03 | um and that Pfizer was wrong so that's all good but unfortunately along the way that that controversy led to doubts |
50:10 | about the drugs and even though we had positive data in a a phase two study in |
50:17 | psoriasis the skin condition with molecules that were like Resveratrol even better a thousand times more potent |
50:23 | the program was abandoned because I think because of the politics that happened so unfortunately that died on |
50:30 | the vine but there are lots of other companies that I've been involved with and started that are keeping that flame |
50:37 | well and truly alive so so to help again to clarify um |
50:42 | yeah politics can actually undermine research for sure but it was your lab that was able to to you went back and |
50:50 | looked at it and verified the results again at the atomic level in that 2013 paper you're talking about right did I |
50:55 | hear that correctly that that was right yeah has any other lab thereafter been able to do that you're |
51:01 | suggesting I'm suggesting that I just want to know |
51:06 | yeah yeah it's it's been well and truly validated by others that have done |
51:12 | Crystal structures and it's all good um and we have a paper that we're working on now where we've changed a |
51:17 | mouse to at the atomic level so that they don't uh respond to the red wine |
51:23 | molecule uh just by making that one amino acid change in the Target enzyme and uh and they don't live longer they |
51:30 | don't run further on a treadmill and that'll be the punctuation mark on that story of my career |
Immortality
51:40 | um move to some audience questions here because we've got several good ones someone wants to know is immortality |
51:47 | biologically possible yeah I think we're only constrained by |
51:53 | our imagination um you said uh that aging is inevitable |
51:58 | the last line of my book is nothing is inevitable even aging and so I I believe |
52:05 | there is nothing that stops US from being long-lived I'm not going to say Immortal |
52:12 | because it that's really quite an extreme but there is something in between where we can live |
52:18 | over a hundred and still have a vibrant life and be productive members of society that is definitely within reach |
52:25 | um perhaps even within our lifetimes yeah someone uh else wants to know how do you suggest we |
Prevention
52:32 | can keep people from misusing this advancement in science and technology and and I'll add um a little Coda to |
52:38 | that um what can we do to prevent these these advancements from |
52:47 | just further exacerbating inequalities that we already have because I feel like |
52:53 | oftentimes this kind of Cutting Edge science in its first iterations |
52:59 | really goes to the benefit of of a small few well the good news is that the kind of |
53:05 | changes that we know can help with longevity and health actually save money you know eat eating |
53:11 | quality vegetables uh and less often or at least in a window |
53:17 | that's an easy change to make for most of us not everyone has access to really healthy food but most of us do exercise |
53:23 | that's relatively free um so it these things these little |
53:28 | changes are available now if you if you want to talk about gene therapy yeah these Technologies do start out expense |
53:35 | in the same way that to fly in the first airplanes was expensive um and prices have come down a little |
53:41 | bit uh but uh you know all Technologies think about how much it costs to have a flat screen TV 20 years ago this is the |
53:49 | normal course of of human advancement and it's it's okay initially that the prices |
53:56 | are high as long as you can rapidly get them down and my goal in developing drugs is to get the price down as fast |
54:03 | as possible so one of the companies that I co-founded that's here called metrobiotech is making a a drug that |
54:10 | really shouldn't cost that much it like a drug called metformin which is a potential anti-aging longevity drug it |
54:17 | should cost only a dollar per day if that to produce such I'm hoping that |
54:23 | once things once drugs are made and to be cheaply made and even eventually will |
54:29 | of course go off patterned they will be as cheap as aspirin and available to everybody on the planet |
54:36 | there are already 8 billion humans on the planet um |
54:41 | if if let's say we do achieve a future in the near future where where the human |
54:48 | lifespan is 150 if not more years I don't I can't say that I know how that |
54:53 | would impact population growth rates but do you think that even like our economies could support |
55:00 | um could support that we have to do something about aging the economies cannot afford not to tackle |
55:07 | age out we are now in a world where population is declining across a lot of |
55:12 | the world there are a few Pockets hot spots of population growth but we're going to top out at 10 billion people and start to |
55:19 | decline already we're in a really bad place in um in the US we're already |
55:25 | declining in in fertility places like Japan Italy China they're going to face |
55:31 | an economic crisis uh within about a decade if they don't do something about it and Elon Musk has talked about this |
55:37 | so I won't believe at that point but what's really often misunderstood is that by allowing people to live |
55:44 | healthier longer lives it's a huge saving for the economy I was fortunate |
55:50 | to team up with a couple of economists in London and we calculated that just extending lifespan healthy lifespan by a year in |
55:57 | the U.S would save 86 trillion dollars in the long run and if you save lives |
56:04 | for 10 years it's 365 trillion these are Big Numbers these These are dollars that |
56:09 | could be put towards improving education and tackling climate change yeah you |
Healthy Lifespan
56:15 | know I have to say deeply appreciate the specificity with you with which you said healthy lifespans right because it's not |
56:21 | just living longer what good does it do us if we live longer but we're still experiencing many years of ill of ill |
56:28 | health but um I'm out of time here but I have one last question for you though |
56:34 | near the beginning of our conversation um you said something which has really |
56:40 | stuck with me you said that aging is the worst thing that could |
56:45 | happen to us um and I'm still also thinking about the |
56:51 | the Deep feeling that you have about having lost your your grandmother right |
56:57 | I mean like people we love when we lose them it stays with us uh |
57:02 | in reading about your research and reading your book and reading how you approach |
57:08 | um your life's work there's something of the Peter Pan about you |
57:13 | and I and I don't mean that in a derogatory way I mean that like you're |
57:20 | uh there's a there's a dream that you have |
57:25 | and can you how how do you respond to that |
57:33 | uh I don't think there's anything wrong with that yeah uh no not with the dream |
Dying is not pleasant
57:39 | but it's it's almost like it's taking you um |
57:44 | you're a mat you're imagining a world which I I do have to say is uh both |
57:50 | exciting and I'm not actually sure I want to be a part of well that No One's Gonna Force you be |
57:58 | part of it but I guarantee when you start to feel the effects of old age you are gonna call me |
58:03 | [Laughter] um we often forget that the person 20 30 |
58:10 | years from now is is us right we think of that as someone else that's that's old me who cares but it is us you know |
58:18 | I'm now 53 and I'm still the same person I was when I was 20 and I wish I could tell my 20 year old self to eat better |
58:25 | and exercise more and that's going to happen to all of us all of us will die |
58:31 | unless one of my students has a real breakthrough but uh most likely we're all going to die and it's not going to |
58:36 | be pleasant we have to admit that dying is not pleasant I've seen now two people |
58:42 | die my mother died really not a very pleasant way uh in |
58:47 | front of the family and I was thinking why doesn't anyone tell you about this why do we talk about |
58:54 | what it's like to die um and if if we don't fight against something like that |
58:59 | what what are we fighting for really I disagree I do no I do and and again |
59:05 | this is not I'm not taking issue with your science there's something very Western about hearing someone say dying is not |
59:12 | pleasant because there are other cultures and traditions in humanity that |
59:18 | seed dying as yet another phase of life and for people I would say dying is not |
59:25 | pleasant in American hospitals for sure but that doesn't have to be how we die |
59:32 | well you've had illness and also dying for this for those who are left behind |
59:37 | it is not pleasant the tragedy of the loss is not pleasant but we don't |
59:43 | necessarily know for those people who had the kind of death that they want if that wasn't pleasant for them |
59:51 | well definitely wasn't pleasant my mother who suffocated to death in front of us now if I could have granted my |
59:58 | mother an extra 20 years of life healthy even an extra year of life I would have done so and you've had |
1:00:04 | sickness and illness and death in your family what would you have done to make that less painful or even have an extra |
1:00:12 | year or two with your loved one no I you know what I'm I'm pushing you so I I'll I will engage with you on this question |
1:00:18 | because it's only fair that you asked me my father so my my mother has peritoneal cancer |
1:00:25 | she's 77. uh she was very very healthy until this summer uh was diagnosed with |
1:00:32 | the cancer and was actually doing fine um until she had surgery she had surgery again I would say it's a hospital system |
1:00:39 | that was the problem not necessarily her cancer um anyway she was in the ICU for several |
1:00:45 | weeks she's actually doing much much better now my father who was extremely healthy |
1:00:53 | um had high blood pressure so not per not in perfect health but had high blood pressure almost 80. the stress |
1:00:58 | of watching his wife of 52 years suffer the way she did in the ICU just two days |
1:01:05 | before she was released from the hospital my father was in my mother's |
1:01:11 | hospital room and he had a heart attack and died |
1:01:16 | so so and he died within 12 hours I mean he was actually at the hospital so they |
1:01:22 | came to him within one minute went to the ER he had he had surgery they put three stents in they still couldn't |
1:01:28 | support his blood pressure because we knew what his wishes were he did not wish to be to have prolonged |
1:01:35 | life support so we we had to make the decision we did but I give that as background because you asked a question |
1:01:40 | you asked me a question what would I want for my father because he's the one who passed away |
1:01:46 | the way he died is exactly how he would have wanted to die because it was quick to your point he |
1:01:53 | didn't suffer for a long time I being the person one of the people left behind I just want him to be a live |
1:01:58 | longer right like I'd love him to be alive but I actually think that those are two different things |
1:02:06 | what would he have wanted if you said I could give you something to be with us another 20 years of healthy life what |
1:02:11 | would he have said well if of course he would he would have said yes yeah so if I had a medicine that you |
1:02:16 | could give your give to your father and it would reverse his heart disease and by the way I should have said I'm very sorry that's okay don't worry it's fine |
1:02:23 | it's terrible he's with me yeah I'm sure so then the question to you is would you |
1:02:31 | deny your father that oh well no no I'm I'm not in the business of saying that people should or |
1:02:36 | you know shouldn't because he he like you said he I can I should |
1:02:41 | make my decisions he he should make his I'm not sure knowing him I'm not sure he would have wanted to though |
1:02:47 | so well you know I I can only guess now here's what I've noticed about uh being |
1:02:53 | in this in this business for a while is that a lot of people I talk to say I don't want to grow old so shoot me |
1:03:01 | when I'm 80. there's someone a doctor who even says that prominent doctor my father's now 83 and I think he would |
1:03:07 | disagree with that sentiment and he has no aches pains diseases he doesn't even need glasses for driving at night in a |
1:03:14 | car and he's been doing the kind of things that I talk about now we don't know if that's the reason he's living |
1:03:19 | longer and being healthy we do know that most of the men his age are already in |
1:03:24 | the ground um he's a Beacon of Hope for all of us that we can adjust our lives to be able |
1:03:30 | to be to thrive in our 80s and Beyond and I know that he is grateful to have |
1:03:36 | stuck around even beyond what my mother how long my mother lasted and he's getting to see his great grandkids sorry |
1:03:42 | he's uh his grandkids now go to college and maybe he will see his great-grandkids as well and that's um |
1:03:49 | that's the life that I think most people should at least have the choice to have I think that you don't have to opt in |
1:03:55 | but uh the way life is right now where we can get sick in our 50s like my mother and suffer for 20 years that's |
1:04:03 | not a life well lived my grandmother also was sick you know for 10 years I look forward to a time when we can |
1:04:09 | choose when we want to die and how we want to die and it hopefully will be as quick and painless for everybody as |
1:04:15 | possible and I think that tackling aging is the best way to get us into that future rather than addressing the symptoms of |
1:04:22 | Aging which is really just putting Band-Aids on a solution and really causing long-term suffering for many |
1:04:27 | people well Dr Sinclair I really want to give you my deepest thanks for sharing your |
1:04:33 | research with us and for yeah for for going there with me tonight |
1:04:40 | thank you so very much for for being here with me thank you |