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2023-07-14 - Interview Dr. David Sinclair - mindbodygreen - AGING is a disease we can REVERSE: Difference between revisions

2023-07-14 - Interview Dr. David Sinclair - mindbodygreen - AGING is a disease we can REVERSE (view source)

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(Created page with "* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mhJ9XElJaA&t=3s&ab_channel=mindbodygreen * Interviewer: Jason Wachob * Length: 1:01:52 == Transcript == [Music] David welcome thanks for...")
 
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== Transcript ==
== Transcript ==
[Music]
=== Intro ===
 
{| style="padding-top: 1em;"
David welcome
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| [Music]
thanks for having me on it is an honor
|-
 
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 0:05
to have you here I'm a big fan of your
| David welcome thanks for having me on it is an honor to have you here I'm a big fan of your
 
|-
work and congrats on the new book
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 0:10
 
| work and congrats on the new book lifespan so what you say in the book is so
lifespan
|-
 
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 0:17
so what you say in the book is so
| there's so many interesting things I'm going to start the highest level where you say aging is a disease
 
|-
there's so many interesting things I'm
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 0:23
 
| let's talk about that well so aging is a disease is a shock to most people because we thought we knew
going to start the highest level where
|}
 
=== Aging is a disease ===
you say aging is a disease
{| style="padding-top: 1em;"
 
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 0:30
let's talk about that
| what aging was but what I'm saying is that we should look at aging as we do a disease
 
|-
well so aging is a disease is a shock to
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 0:37
 
| definition of of a disease is that over time you lose function
most people because we thought we knew
|-
 
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 0:42
what aging was
| you become disabled and eventually if it's a bad disease you die from it that sounds a
 
|-
but what I'm saying is that we should
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 0:49
 
| lot like aging right and if you go to the medical dictionary the only difference between aging and a disease
look at aging as we do a disease
|-
 
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 0:54
definition of of a disease is that over
| is that a disease affects less than half the population so if aging affected 51
 
|-
time you lose function
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 1:01
 
| we as we do we separate it from disease if it was affecting 49 percent
you become
|-
 
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 1:07
disabled and eventually if it's a bad
| we'd be studying this and putting billions and billions of dollars into trying trying to solve it and that 50
 
|-
disease you die from it that sounds a
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 1:12
 
| cut off is completely arbitrary the problem with having aging separate from disease and remember it's just a
lot like aging right and if you go to
|-
 
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 1:19
the medical dictionary the only
| word definition it's not a biological difference they're actually totally intertwined aging is the major cause of
 
|-
difference between aging and a disease
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 1:25
 
| all major diseases on the planet but we put into a separate category partly because of History because we
is that a disease affects less than half
|-
 
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 1:32
the population
| didn't understand it it seemed natural whereas cancer was unnatural but it's
 
|-
so if aging affected 51
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 1:38
 
| all natural and we've always fought against diseases like cancer and heart disease we didn't know how to until
we as we do we separate it from disease
|-
 
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 1:43
if it was affecting 49 percent
| recently same with aging but we're at a point now like we were with cancer 30 40
 
|-
we'd be studying this and putting
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 1:50
 
| years ago we Now understand we think what drives the process and we're having some really great success in the lab and
billions and billions of dollars into
|-
 
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 1:56
trying trying to solve it and that 50
| in some clinical trials with people of being able to at least slow down and some evidence that even reversing aging
 
|-
cut off is completely arbitrary
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 2:03
 
| is possible and when you can do that then I think we should start taking aging as a disease very seriously so in
the problem with having aging separate
|-
 
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 2:09
from disease and remember it's just a
| your opinion we're at that point where we can slow aging and it is reversible
 
|-
word definition it's not a biological
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 2:15
 
| in mice it's pretty easy it was it was shockingly easy but we're not mice so we have a bit of work to do but there are a
difference they're actually totally
|-
 
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 2:22
intertwined aging is the major cause of
| number of studies that already published that you can reverse aspect of Aging in
 
|-
all major diseases on the planet
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 2:28
 
| people boost their immune system improve endurance improve metabolism
but we put into a separate category
|-
 
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 2:33
partly because of History because we
| in fact there's a drug on the market called metformin which we may delve into yes uh which is our our best guess is
 
|-
didn't understand it it seemed natural
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 2:42
 
| it's a longevity molecule it actually slows down aging because diabetics you take this molecule
whereas cancer was unnatural but it's
|-
 
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 2:47
all natural and we've always fought
| are relatively resistant to heart disease and cancer and Alzheimer's and Frailty even though they have diabetes
 
|-
against diseases like cancer and heart
| style="min-width:4em; color: grey; text-align: right; padding-right: 1em; vertical-align: top;" | 2:52
 
| and we
disease we didn't know how to until
 
recently same with aging but we're at a
 
point now like we were with cancer 30 40
 
years ago we Now understand we think
 
what drives the process and we're having
 
some really great success in the lab and
 
in some clinical trials with people of
 
being able to at least slow down and
 
some evidence that even reversing aging
 
is possible and when you can do that
 
then I think we should start taking
 
aging as a disease very seriously so in
 
your opinion we're at that point where
 
we can slow aging and it is reversible
 
in mice it's pretty easy it was it was
 
shockingly easy but we're not mice so we
 
have a bit of work to do but there are a
 
number of studies that already published
 
that you can reverse aspect of Aging in
 
people boost their immune system improve
 
endurance improve metabolism
 
in fact there's a drug on the market
 
called metformin which we may delve into
 
yes uh which is our our best guess is
 
it's a longevity molecule it actually
 
slows down aging because diabetics you
 
take this molecule
 
are relatively resistant to heart
 
disease and cancer and Alzheimer's and
 
Frailty even though they have diabetes
 
and we think that if healthy people or
 
pre-diabetics take this drug they'll
 
also be protected
 
um but yeah it's here right now that's
 
what I'm trying to say in my book and
 
that there are things we can do with our
 
lives today and there are things that
 
are coming down the pike just a few
 
years from now so let's stay on
 
Metformin for a minute I think it's so
 
interesting because essentially it's
 
refined our real medicine it's French
 
lilac but it's a drug
 
and so let's just talk about what it is
 
and you mentioned diabetes that's where
 
it originated from but there was a
 
recent study where it was a combination
 
of Metformin DHEA and growth hormone
 
that took it was a small study I think
 
it was like nine or ten people but took
 
two and a half years off of the
 
biological clock
 
so let's just yeah talk about that for a
 
second
 
right well until recently we didn't
 
really know how to measure aging
 
telomeres are a bit wishy-washy they
 
move around it's not super accurate
 
these are the ends of chromosomes that
 
shorten
 
um there are blood biomarkers which a
 
company that I work with called inside
 
tracker measures so I've been estimating
 
my biological age using five different
 
measures in blood but recently we've
 
developed What's called the epigenetic
 
clock and Stephen Horvath a colleague of
 
mine
 
gives his name to it so why is that
 
important now we can take a DNA sample
 
from any part of your body typically
 
it's blood because that's easy to get
 
and I can I could tell you how old you
 
are exactly within a few percent
 
biologically I don't have to see you I
 
don't need to measure you I don't need
 
to see birthday candles and then I can
 
predict accurately when you're going to
 
die as well wow so where can I do this
 
test if you show up at your lab it's
 
right on the cusp of being commercially
 
available
 
I'm working on something with Steve
 
there are a couple of others
 
it's almost ready for prime time so this
 
time next year you should be able to
 
fairly cheaply figure out when you're
 
going to die have you figured out your
 
bio I'm sure what's your biological age
 
well I haven't done this test yet okay
 
um I want to I've Been Working on mice
 
and
 
getting that to work also and we're
 
working really hard to bring the test
 
down from 300 bucks down to three three
 
bucks so that that'll really change
 
things but yeah your your point is what
 
HMI well the best estimate came from
 
that inside tracker company and uh it's
 
an independent thing even though I'm a
 
small time investor they didn't know it
 
was my blood right so but they
 
I was actually at 58. aged 58
 
biologically when I was 48 which freaked
 
me out I didn't want to be 10 years
 
older I wasn't exercising I wasn't
 
eating the right things I wasn't taking
 
nmn which I do now we'll talk about that
 
later
 
um and I wasn't on Metformin so I added
 
a few things step wise and had a look at
 
what happened to my body
 
and pretty quickly it was in less than
 
six months as I added things and got
 
better and better
 
uh looking at my blood biochemistry the
 
algorithm independently determined that
 
I went down to 31.4 wow now people look
 
at me and say David
 
that's not science and it's true that's
 
not a clinical trial uh but if nothing
 
else I improved a lot of the parameters
 
that go up with age and I brought them
 
back down
 
and that that's if nothing more it makes
 
me feel good about myself and it was
 
motivational and what I've learned from
 
that experience is that the more you can
 
know about your body like a dashboard
 
the better you can respond
 
um if you go for a run or if you change
 
your life if you eat a certain new diet
 
you exercise too much or too little how
 
do you know it's working you have to
 
measure things to really be able to a
 
know if it's working and B just be
 
cognizant of of what you're putting in
 
your mouth and what you're doing with
 
your body so you think we're a year away
 
from this okay so the clock yeah getting
 
back to the clock yeah it's
 
it's really interesting you take the DNA
 
out and you just treat it with a
 
chemical and run it through a sequencing
 
machine and determine the DNA code and
 
what we're measuring is not just the
 
code but there are chemicals that bind
 
to the letter c you know how DNA is actg
 
on the C's we get what's called a methyl
 
chemical that's
 
six there binds to it and doesn't come
 
off and they accumulate essentially in
 
different places as we get older and we
 
can read that sequence and that pattern
 
is very predictable between people in
 
fact the same pattern can predict the
 
age of a dog as well so that there's
 
this common what we call epigenetic
 
basis for the Aging clock between all
 
mammals and seemingly all the way back
 
to jellyfish
 
so
 
I want to talk about the what we can do
 
in terms of Lifestyle because metformin
 
it's a drug we're talking about we're
 
going to talk about NAD and nmn and R
 
and all the other things we can kind of
 
do there
 
but for for many listening they're going
 
to say okay I have this information
 
maybe a year from now or today or I want
 
to do there are things I can do in terms
 
of Lifestyle yeah in your opinion as
 
always our friend Rich Roll says you uh
 
you know hell begins on the plate for a
 
lot of people so if we start with
 
nutrition in your opinion what's the
 
optimal diet for longevity
 
yeah well so the the good news is that
 
that clock will tell us if we're doing
 
the right thing
 
and we didn't know that until now so
 
what are the things to do uh well the
 
first thing that I started to do based
 
on all the evidence was to eat less
 
often
 
and I have propensity to diabetes and
 
obesity in my family and in my genome so
 
I have to be extra careful if I didn't
 
watch what I ate I would be probably
 
over 200 200 something pounds you were
 
far from it uh yeah what am I a
 
135 or something
 
um but I have to work at it and so that
 
means I cannot eat and I shouldn't eat
 
three meals a day
 
um I try to eat one meal a day if I can
 
sometimes it's a bit hard with all of
 
the work and brain activity that's going
 
on
 
but yeah that's one thing is the three
 
meals a day with snacks in between never
 
get hungry
 
I think that's the worst for people it's
 
it's I know it's against what your
 
mother said uh probably
 
um and the old idea was that you don't
 
want to stress out your system you don't
 
want to have big spikes in ups and downs
 
in glucose because that'll stress out
 
your pancreas and that'll lead to
 
diabetes
 
but what we've learned is that yeah
 
overeating is bad but under eating is
 
not so bad as long as you're not
 
malnourished you know we're not talking
 
about malnutrition here we don't want
 
particularly young uh kids thinking that
 
they should be too little but we're
 
talking about adults here who are
 
clearly given too much food in their
 
lives and have access to too much food
 
um which leads not just to obesity but
 
even those who are healthy always being
 
satisfied and never feeling hungry it
 
puts the body into a state of
 
complacency we've worked in my lab on a
 
set of genes called the sirtuins for the
 
last 30 years we found them first in
 
baker's yeast and they're in our bodies
 
these are very ancient genes that evolve
 
to to survive when times were tough
 
and we think that's why diet or healthy
 
diets and being hungry and even exercise
 
give us health benefits that's why we
 
live longer if we exercise it's not
 
because blood flows around the body it's
 
because you're turning on these ancient
 
defenses to survive and if we're sitting
 
around and we're eating as as much food
 
as we want
 
and we're always in a thermo neutral
 
zones we're always just perfectly air
 
conditioned and heated throughout the
 
year our bodies just say hey great no
 
need to fight disease I'm good
 
and so fasting I'm going to stay there
 
for a minute a lot of people have
 
different definitions of fasting whether
 
it's
 
over a night or 16 8 or 18 6 or and then
 
people will debate well what what is
 
autophagy kick in and the power of
 
autophagus so let's talk in your opinion
 
what what is the
 
optimal way too fast for longevity right
 
well let's get one thing clear because
 
there's a lot of debate about this
 
uh we don't know what's best for
 
the average human because there is no
 
average human
 
and that's why I say when when you come
 
to me and ask me for advice I'll say
 
well I know what works for me because
 
I've been doing this for 15 years very
 
fair point all right but let I'm not
 
judging the question I think that that
 
what I do is good for me in part because
 
it fits my lifestyle but if I could just
 
do whatever I wanted to I would try to
 
skip food for three days in a row
 
at least once a month
 
um our friend Peter otia does does that
 
he goes for even a week once a quarter
 
now I can't do that I just find it
 
really tough but I think it's good
 
because after three days we know that a
 
different type of autophagy kicks in to
 
scrape the barrel and recycle proteins
 
and it's called chaperone mediated
 
autophagyin do you say that again it was
 
a mouthful so chaperone okay we've got
 
that uh mediated autophagy
 
okay and it's really what it means is
 
there are proteins called chaperones
 
that hold on to proteins and guide them
 
where to go and in this case they push
 
them into the garbage can to be recycled
 
and that takes a lot of hunger
 
uh I would say starvation but a lot of
 
uh yeah three days is no joke pretty
 
close to starvation right
 
and so your body will say okay now it's
 
time I've run out of all my fat or uh
 
run out of my certainly my liver stores
 
I'm gonna start chewing up the protein
 
to make energy and that's what's going
 
on and that's
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